COLUMBIA  BASIN  IRRIGATION 


16 


HEARING 

BEFORE  THE 

MMITTEE  0^  JEEIGATION  AND  BECLAMATION 

UNITED  STATES^SENATE 

[\COJs 


SIXTY-SEVENTH  \CONGRESS 
SECOND   SESSION 

•  * 

ON 

S.  3745 

A  BILL  FOR  THE  CREATION  OF  THE  COLUMBIA  BASIN 

IRRIGATION  COMMISSION,  AND  AUTHORIZING 

AN  APPROPRIATION  THEREFOR 


JULY  10,  1922 


Printed  for  the  use  of  the  Committee  on  Irrigation  and  Reclamation 


Y  Or  CALIFORNIA 
:>S  ANGELES 

JUN  2  6  1958 

LIBRARY 
GOVT.  PUBS.  ROOM 


2894 


WASHINGTON 

GOVERNMENT  PRINTING   OFFICE 
1922 


COMMITTEE  ON  IRRIGATION  AND  RECLAMATION. 

CHARLES  L.  McNARY,  Oregon,  Chairman. 

WESLEY  L.  JONES,   Washington.  MORRIS   SHEPPARD,  Texas. 

LAWRENCE  C.  PHIPPS,  Colorado.  THOMAS  J.  WALSH,  Montana. 

FRANK  R.  GOODING,  Idaho.  JOHN  B.  KENDRICK,  Wyoming. 

RALPH  H.  CAMERON,  Arizona.  KEY  PITTMAN,  Nevada. 

TASKER  L.  ODDIE,  Nevada. 
SAMUEL  M.   SHORTRIDGE,  California. 

H.  K.  KIBFER,  Clerk. 
II 


COLUMBIA    BASIN    IRRIGATION. 


MONDAY,  JULY   10,    1922. 

UNITED  STATES  SENATE, 
COMMITTEE  ON  IRBIGATION  AND  RECLAMATION, 

Washington,  D.  C. 

The  committee  met,  pursuant  to  call  of  the  chairman,  at  2.30  o'clock  p.  m., 
Senator  Charles  L.  McNary  presiding. 

Present:  Senators  McNary  (chairman),  Jones,  Phipps,  Cameron,  Oddie, 
Shortridge.  Walsh,  and  Kendrick. 

The  committee  thereupon  proceeded  to  the  consideration  of  S.  3745,  which 
is  here  printed  in  full,  as  follows : 

"A  BILLi -For  the  creation  of  the  Columbia  Basin  Irrigation  Commission  and  authorizing 

an  appropriation  therefor. 

"  Be  it  enacted,  etc.,  That  there  is  hereby  created  a  commission  to  be  known 
as  the  Columbia  Basin  Irrigation  Commission,  said  commission  to  consist  of 
the  following  members :  One  member,  to  be  appointed  by  the  Secretary  of  the 
Interior,  to  be  a  qualified  irrigation  expert ;  one  member,  to  be  appointed  by  the 
Secretary  of  Agriculture,  to  be  a  qualified  soil  expert ;  and  one  member,  to 
be  appointed  by  the  Secretary  of  Commerce,  to  be  a  qualified  transportation 
expert. 

"  SEC.  2.  That  the  said  commission  shall  report  to  the  Secretary  of  the 
Interior  as  early  as  possible  and  not  later  than  January  1,  1923.  the  essential 
features  of  the  proposed  Columbia  Basin  irrigation  project  in  the  following 
particulars :  Its  water  supply  and  the  permanency  and  sufficiency  thereof ; 
the  approximate  watershed  from  which  said  water  supply  is  to  be  derived  and 
what,  if  any,  natural  reservoirs,  such  as  lakes,  are  available  for  the  storing 
of  surplus  waters  for  the  said  land ;  the  character  of  the  climate  as  it  affects 
the  agricultural  development  of  the  said  land ;  the  transportation  facilities 
available  therefor ;  the  prospects  and  means  of  settlement ;  the  engineering 
features  of  the  proposed  project,  stating  point  of  diversion  of  the  water  to 
be  used  in  the  said  project  and  from  what  streams;  the  principal  dam  or  dams 
which  may  be  needed  therefor  and  the  general  location,  nature,  length,  and 
character  of  such  aqueducts  or  canals  as  may  be  necessary  for  conveying  the 
water  to  the  lands  to  be  irrigated  thereby ;  the  cost  and  feasibility  from  an 
engineering  and  physical  standpoint  of  such  work  as  may  be  required  to 
accomplish  the  purposes  of  the  said  project,  both  in  the  aggregate  and  the 
ultimate  cost  per  acre  to  the  land  to  be  benefited  thereby;  and  the  views  of 
the  commission  as  to  the  general  benefits  to  be  derived  from  the  completion 
of  the  said  project  in  the  way  of  markets  for  manufactured  products,  of 
increased  agricultural  production,  of  opportunities  for  home  building,  and  the 
effect  of  the  same,  both  upon  the  communities  immediately  affected  and  upon 
the  Nation  at  large,  and  such  other  matters  as  in  the  judgment  of  the  said 
commission  may  be  of  importance  and  pertinent  to  the  proposed  development. 

"  SKC.  .">.  That  for  the  purpose  of  carrying  out  the  prov'sions  of  this  a<-t 
there  is  hereby  authorized  an  appropriation,  from  any  money  in  the  Treasury 
not  otherwise  appropriated,  of  the  sum  of  $100 .MO.  to  be  expended  under  the 
direction  of  the  Secretary  of  the  Interior  by  s:iid  commission  in  making  siirii 
investigation,  studies.  Miid  report." 

1 


2  COLUMBIA   BASIN    IRRIGATION. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  committee,  gentlemen,  will  now  take  up  S.  :'.74."">  intro- 
duced by  Senator  Poindexter :  and  I  have  here  and  I  shall  read  a  letter  from 
the  Secretary  of  the  Interior,  Mr.  Fall,  dated  July  3,  1922.  [Heading:] 

DEPARTMENT  OF  THE  INTERIOR, 

\\'tixhin</to>i,  .Inhi  J.  J!U.>. 
Hon.  CHARLES  L.  MC-XARY, 

Chairman   Committee  on  Irrigation  <iu<1  h'edamation, 
1'niteil  Xtutex  St-ntite. 

MY  DEAR  SENATOR:  Reference  is  made  to  your  letter  of  June  26,  1922,  in- 
closing copy  of  S.  3745,  with  request  for  report.  The  proposed  measure  is 
entitled.  "A  bill  for  the  creation  of  the  Columbia  Basin  irrigation  commission 
and  authorizing  an  appropriation  therefor."  It  would  create  a  commission  of 
three,  composed  of  an  irrigation  expert,  a  soil  expert,  and  a  transportation 
expert,  to  examine  and  report  upon  what  is  known  as  the  Columbia  Basin  ir- 
rigation project,  located  in  the  States  of  Montana.  Idaho,  and  Washington. 
As  now  estimated,  this  project  would  involve  an  expenditure  of  upward  of 
$300,000,000  and  would  provide  for  the  irrigation  of  about  1,753,000  acres  of 
land.  Thus  far  only  preliminary  investigations  have  been  had  and  there  is 
much  need  for  the  securing  of  additional  data  upon  the  proposed  venture.  The 
commission  suggested  that  S.  3745  would  be  appropriate  for  the  purpose  of 
gathering  such  additional  data,  and  I  am  in  favor  of  the  enactment  of  the  bill 
into  law. 

I  would  suggest  that  the  bill  be  amended  in  section  1  by  providing  suitable 
salaries  for  the  members  of  the  commission. 

Also,  it  would   appear  advisable  to  better  define  the  proposed  project  by 
inserting  in  line  2,  on  page  2,  after  the  word  "project,"  the  words  "  located  in 
the  States  of  Montana,  Idaho,  and  Washington." 
Respectfully, 

ALBERT  B.  FALL.  Secret  tirii. 

Director  Davis  is  here  to-day.  Secretary  I^all  being  unable  to  come  on  ac- 
count of  having  a  conference  with  the  President  over  the  coal  situation.  Sen- 
ator Poindexter,  the  author  of  the  bill,  is  present.  Senator,  may  I  ask  you 
to  be  first  heard,  or  would  you  like  to  have  Director  Davis  address  the  com- 
mittee? 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  If  I  may,  I  will  make  a  statement,  and  what  I  have  to 
say  will  be  very  brief. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  We  will  be  very  glad  to  hear  you. 

STATEMENT   OF   HON.   MILES  POINDEXTER,,   SENATOR,  FROM   THE 
STATE  OF  WASHINGTON. 

Senator  POINDEXTEB.  Of  course  you  will  notice  that  this  bill  does  not  commit 
the  Congress  to  the  project,  but  is  a  mere  authorization  for  an  inquiry  and 
a  report. 

It  is  a  project  of  great  magnitude.  It  has  already  been  examined  to  a 
considerable  extent,  through  funds  that  were  appropriated  by  the  State  of 
Washington  and  from  private  sources.  The  State  of  Washington  appropriated 
$150,000  for  the  preliminary  survey,  appointed  an  irrigation  commission  com- 
posed of  engineers  of  standing  and  reputation,  and  they  have  reported  that  the 
project  is  feasible.  Furthermore,  General  Goethals,  the  builder  of  the  Panama 
Canal,  was  asked  to  examine  the  data  that  the  State  had  collected.  He 
visited  the  territory  covered  by  the  project,  had  his  experts,  as  well  as  himself, 
spend  a  month  or  more  going  over  the  project  and  the  data  which  had  been 
collected  by  the  State.  General  Goethals  has  filed  a  report,  which  is  available 
to  the  committee.  It  is  quite  a  comprehensive  report,  indorsing  the  project 
and  reporting  favorably  upon  it  as  to  engineering  feasibility  and  upon  its 
economic  desirability. 

In  its  elemental  outlines  the  project  is  to  take  water  from  the  Rocky 
Mountains — some  of  it  will  come  from  the  Glacier  National  Park — store  it,  in 
part,  in  natural  reservoirs,  primarily  Flathead  Lake,  which  the  committee  is 
familiar  with  as  one  of  the  great  lakes  of  the  country;  in  fact,  the  greatest 
outside  of  the  Great  Lakes,  and  Pend  Oreille  Lake,  and  then  to  divert  it  from 
stream  which  flows  from  those  lakes,  sometimes  called  Clark's  Fork  of 
Columbia  River,  and  generally  in  our  country  called  the  Pend  Oreille 
Kiver,  at  a  falls  in  that  river  which  goes  by  the  name  of  Albany  F^lls,  and 
to  carry  i,  from  there  through  the  States  of  Idaho  and  Washington  and 
it  upon  th"  lands  of  the  Big  Bend  of  the  Columbia  River. 


COLUMBIA  BASIN   IRRIGATION.  3 

The  figures  are  approximately  $250,000,000  as  the  cost  of  the  project,  and 
would  provide  for  the  irrigation  of  about  1,753,000  acres  of  land.  That  is 
stated  merely  as  an  approximation  based,  no  doubt,  upon  the  preliminary 
reports  that  have  been  made,  and  I  think  that  they  will  prove  to  be  an  over- 
statement of  the  cost  and  an  understatement  of  the  number  of  acres  to  be 
irrigated — I  mean  an  overstatement  in  so  far  as  cost  can  be  calculated  in 
advance. 

My  understanding  is  that  the  number  of  acres  apparently  available  for 
irrigation  will  approach  2,000,000.  So  I  would  be  of  the  opinion — and 
that  is  a  mere  superficial  and  cursory  and  tentative  idea,  based  upon  the 
preliminary  examination  which  I  have  made — that  the  cost  would  be  more 
nearly  $200,000,000  and  the  number  of  acres  approximately  2,000,000.  That 
is  substantially  what  it  is. 

The  members  of  this  committee,  I  observe,  are  men  from  the  West,  who  are 
as  familiar  or  more  familiar  with  the  potentialities  of  irrigation  than  I  am 
myself.  I  regard  it  as  the  very  life  and  essence  of  the  continued  progress  of 
the  West.  The  State  of  Washington,  I  may  say,  in  so  far  as  eastern  Wash- 
ington is  concerned,  while  it  has  developed  a  great  civilization  and  is  a  worthy 
element  in  the  national  life,  has  pretty  nearly  reached  its  limit  unless  we 
irrigate  our  arid  and  semiarid  land. 

We  believe  there  has  been  a  sufficient  preliminary  showing  made  here  to  at 
least  make  out  a  prirna  facie  case  that  there  is  an  opportunity  here  to  bring 
into  existence  new  wealth  that  would  approximate  that  of  many  of  the  States 
of  the  Nation,  and  we  feel  that  we  can  confidently  submit  such  a  case  to  this 
committee  upon  the  proposition  that  further  inquiry  should  be  made  along  the 
line  designated  in  this  bill,  and  a  report  made  upon  which  Congress  would  be 
able  to  take  action. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  Senator,  let  me  ask  you  a  question,  as  I  want  your  opinion 
in  the  matter.  The  Secretary  of  the  Interior  suggests  that  the  members  of 
the  commission  be  provided  suitable  salaries,  to  be  specified  by  amendment  to 
the  bill.  You  ask  an  appropriation  to  cover  the  expenses  of  the  commission 
aggregating  something  like  $100,000.  Do  you  think  that  we  should  conform  to 
the  Secretary's  view  and  specify  what  they  should  receive  to  be  paid  out  of  the 
appropriation  of  $100,000,  or  leave  that  -to  the  different  Cabinet  heads  to  pro- 
vide what  salaries  the  commissioners  are  to  receive  to  be  taken  from  the  funds 
of  the  several  departments? 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  There  are  two  alternatives.  If  salaries  are  to  be  pro- 
vided for  which  appropriations  will  have  to  be  made,  I  think  that  ought  to  be 
in  addition  to  the  $100,000. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  I  Just  wondered  if  you  had  that  in  contemplation. 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  I  did  not  have  in  contemplation  that  the  salaries  would 
be  included  in  this  $100.000. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  When  you  specified  that  $100,000  be.  placed  in  the  bill,  did  you 
consider  that  these  men  were  to  be  taken  from  the  outside  or  drawn  from  the 
departments? 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  What  I  had  in  mind  was  that  they  were  to  be  taken 
from  the  departments  without  further  charge  or,  if  necessary  to  pay  them  a 
salary,  that  further  provision  would  be  made. 

Senator  WALSH.  Senator  Poindexter,  I  would  like  to  get  a  little  further  in- 
formation about  the  plan  you  have  in  mind.  Of  course,  in  addition  to  the 
irrigation  of  this  vast  area  here,  this  necessarily  contemplates  the  development 
of  the  enormous  water  power,  through  the  rapids  of  the  Pend  Oreille  River, 
which  is  supposed  to  be  capable  of  producing  something  like  250,000  horse- 
power ;  if  the  Flathead  Lake  is  made  a  storage  basin,  as  is  contemplated  here, 
it  will  of  course,  be  ancillary  to  that  power  development? 

It  is  a  comparatively  simple  matter  to  proceed  if  this  were  to  be  simply  an 
irrigation  project.  Undoubtedly  it  would  then  go  along  just  the  same  as  the 
rest  of  the  irrigation  projects,  the  land  irrigated  eventually  to  return  the 
amount  appropriated  to  the  Treasury  and  the  property  to  be  operated  meanwhile 
by  the  Government  until  it  was  finally  taken  over  by  the  water  users.  The 
Cabinet  Gorge  site  will  develop  at  least  as  much  power  as  the  Poison  site  to 
which  I  have  referred ;  so  that  this  project  contemplates  work  contributing  to 
the  development  of  something  like  400,000  or  500.000  horsepower.  What  scheme 
have  you  in  mind  for  the  development  and  utilization  of  that  electric  power  and 
the  distribution  and  sale  of  it? 

Senator  POIXDEXTKK.  That  electric  power,  of  course,  would  belong  to  the 
project.  I  do  not  understand  that  thev  have  worked  out  the  details. 


4  COLUMBIA   BASIX   IRRIGATION. 

Senator  WAI.SH.  But.  meanwhile,  tin-  Government  will  ho  carrying  on  the 
enterprise  and  tho  Government  will  have  to  conduct  the  works  for  the  develop- 
ment of  the  water  power  as  well  as  for  the  storage  and  tho  distribution  system, 
and  you  would  then  have  the  Government,  under  thai  plan,  handling  a  water- 
power  proposition  which  contemplates  the  distribution  of  a  matter  of  400.000 
horsepower,  and  that  is  quite  an  undertaking. 

Senator  POINDKXTER.  I  did  not  comprehend  from  the  examination  I  have 
made  of  the  plan,  which  is  not  complete  by  any  means,  that  there  would  he  that 
much  water  power  developed. 

Senator  WALSH.  The  Fend  Oreille  alone  at  Poison  produces  1'iM.ooo  horse- 
power. 

Senator  POINDKXTER.  Whore  is  that? 

Senator  WALSH.  Just  at  the  outlet  of  Flathead  Lake ;  and  then  Cabinet  Gorge 
[produces  200.000  horsepower  more. 

Senator  POINDKXTKR.  Whether  it  would  be  necessary  in  the  plan  which  would 
be  worked  out  for  the  irrigation  to  develop  that  power — 

Senator  WALSH.  Yon  see,  if  yon  store  water  in  Flathead  Lake,  you  have  to 
put  in  a  dam.  and  when  you  have  your  dam  in  your  power  development  is  then 
practically  complete  except  for  the  diversion  works  and  the  development 
stations. 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  The  development  works  and  machinery  of  various  kinds 
are  very  exi>ensive.  I  would  imagine  that  the  power  question  would  be  more 
or  less  a  gradual  development,  so  far  as  its  completion  was  concerned. 

Senator  WALSH.  No;  there  are  applications  now  before  the  Water  Power 
Commission  for  the  development  of  that  power,  and  I  was  wondering  whether 
you  had  in  mind  possibly  a  combination  under  which  the  water-power  develop- 
ment-would go  on  under  the  jurisdiction  of  the  Water  Power  Commission,  acting 
conjointly  with  the  Reclamation  Service,  which  would  undertake  this  work  of 
reclamation. 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  Frankly.  Senator,  my  view  about  the  matter  was  ilia' 
in  the  first  place  we  ought  to  get  a  report  giving  an  authoritative  final  conclu- 
sion as  to  the  project  itself,  to  include.  I  think,  under  the  language  of  this  reso- 
lution, the  details  of  the  project,  the  methods  of  development  and  very  likely 
the  report  itself  will  contain  recommendations  as  to  such  matters  as  you  speak 
of;  but  if  it  did  not,  that  would  be  the  time  for  Congress,  it  seems  to  me.  to  take 
up  the  matter  in  connection  with  the  question  of  whether  it  would  authori/.e 
the  project  and  what  use  it  would  make  of  its  by-products. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  I  notice  the  land  is  all  in  the  State  of  Washington. 

Senator  POINDEXTKR.  Yes. 

Senator  JONES.  Did  yon  state.  Senator,  how  much  the  State  has  spent  V 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  The  State  has  spent  $150,000.  and  in  addition  to  that 
$150,000,  private  parties,  individuals  in  Spokane  chiefly,  have  contributed  about 
$50.000. 

Senator  WALSH.  What  relation  does  this  bear  to  the  Priest  Rapids  project? 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  It  does  not  bear  any  relation  to  that  at  all  :  that  is  LMK) 
miles  farther  down  the  Columbia  River. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  I  thought  a  part  of  this  project  extended  into  Idaho  and 
Montana. 

Senator  WALSH.  What  they  mean,  undoubtedly,  I  assume,  is  that  the  water 
supply  is  located  in  Idaho  and  Montana. 

Director  DAVIS.  The  diversion  dam  is  in  Idaho  and  the  water  in  Montana. 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  It  may  very  well  be  true;  that  is  probably  what  is  meant. 
I  do  not  think  there  is  any  land  covered  by  the  project  that  is  located  in  Idaho 
or  Montana. 

The  CHAIIIMAN.  The  language  of  the  Secretary's  report  is:  "To  examine  and 
report  upon  what  is  known  as  the  Columbia  basin  irrigation  project,  located  in 
the  States  of  Montana.  Idaho,  and  Washington." 

Director  DAVIS.  The  diversion  works  and  dams  are  located  in  those  States. 
hut  the  land  is  none  of  it  outside  of  Washington. 

Senator  KENDRICK.  Senator  Poindexter,  do  you  propose  taking  tho  principal 
supply  of  water  from  the  Columbia? 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  From  a  branch  of  the  Culumhia.  the  Pend  Oreillo. 

Senator  KKNDRICK.  It  comes  from  a  va-=t  watershed  which  Senator  Walsh  is 
very  familiar  with.  Part  of  it  comes  from  the  glaciers  and  snow  mountains  of 
the  ({lacier  National  Park. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  May  I  express  a  little  surprise  that  after  those  expenditures, 
aggregating  $200,000,  already  made  are  to  determine  the  possibilities  and  the 


COLUMBIA  BASIX   IRRIGATION.  5 

feasibility  of  this  project,  that  it  is  still  found  necessary  to  make  a  further  large 
expenditure? 

Senator  POIXDEXTER.  I  had  the  same  feeling,  but  Mr.  Davis  can  tell  you  about 
the  need  of  expenditures  in  preliminary  work.  I  confess  it  was  at  first  surpris- 
ing to  me. 

Personally,  I  am  already  convinced,  but  we  have  got  to  convince  a  great  many 
people,  and  we  have  to  convince  Congress  in  a  most  conclusive  way  in  order 
to  justify  payments  which  will  involve  the  expenditure  perhaps  of  several 
hundred  million  dollars.  The  engineers,  as  Mr.  Davis  will  tell  you,  have  a 
certain  percentage  of  the  cost  of  a  project  which  they  think  is  reasonable  to 
allow  for  preliminary  investigation,  and  I  think  it  would  run  up  into  much  more 
than  has  been  proposed  here. 

I  heard  an  oral  statement  of  one  of  the  engineers  who  was  upon  the  commis- 
sion appointed  by  the  State  of  Washington  and,  knowing  the  terrain  as  I  did, 
having  hunted  and  fished  over  these  rivers  and  lakes  and  ridden  over  the  land 
to  be  irrigated,  I  could  understand  him  very  clearly,  and  it  was  quite  enthrall- 
ing and  entrancing  to  hear  the  development  as  he  unfolded  it  of  this  project 
from  an  engineering  standpoint ;  and  while,  of  course,  his  word  is  not  the  final 
word,  it  is  exceedingly  convincing. 

General  Goethals  is  not  only  favorable  in  his  report,  but  in  talking  with  him 
he  is  very  enthusiastic  about  it.  He  feels  that  there  is  not  any  question  about 
its  feasibility. 

Of  course,  before  starting  in  upon  the  work  there  has  got  to  be  an  immense 
amount  of  preliminary  engineering  done  in  order  to  know  how  to  do  it,  even 
after  committing  yourself  to  the  proposition. 

Senator  KENDRICK.  What  is  the  character  of  the  land  to  be  reclaimed? 

Senator  POINDEXTEK.  It  is  reported  to  be  of  the  highest  class ;  it  is  reported  as 
equal  to  the  Yakima — I  do  not  know  whether  Senator  Jones  will  admit  that. 

Senator  JONES.  Yes;  equal  to  it. 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  There  are  about  400,000  acres  in  what  is  called  the 
Quincy  Flat,  which,  while  perfectly  smooth,  is  not  altogether  level,  but  has  just 
a  slight  grade,  which  would  be  of  great  advantage  in  the  flow  of  water  over  it. 
It  is  a  beautiful  thing  to  look  at  and  land  of  unquestionable  fertility  and  un- 
questionably fine  climate. 

One  advantage  of  this  project  is  that  a  great  deal  of  this  country  to  be  irri- 
gated is  not  entirely  arid  but  merely  semiarid,  and  the  framework  of  the  social 
organization  and  settlement  is  already  there.  There  are  towns  in  this  great 
wheat  area,  and  in  places  there  has  been  irrigation  developed  where  they  have 
gotten  a  little  water  and  demonstrated  the  fertility  of  the  soil  and  its  adapta- 
bility to  various  kinds  of  agriculture. 

Senator  KENDRICK.  WTould  reclamation  involve  drainage  or  would  you  be  able 
to  avoid  that  expense? 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  I  should  say,  offhand,  that  in  general  the  drainage  is  un- 
usually good  on  account  of  the  land,  generally  speaking,  being  upon  a  high 
plateau  with  ravines  draining  into  the  Columbia  Riyer. 

Senator  JONES.  You  would  have  the  development  of  an  irrigation  system  in 
connection  with  that.  In  fact,  I  doubt  whether  there  are  very  many  reclama- 
tion projects  which  should  not  have  an  irrigation  system  along  with  them. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  Whom  would  you  call  next? 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  \Ve  would  like  to  have  Director  Davis  now  to  address 
the  committee. 

STATEMENT   OF  DIRECTOR  ARTHUR  P.   DAVIS,   RECLAMATION 
SERVICE,   DEPARTMENT   OF   THE  INTERIOR. 

Director  DAVIS.  The  Columbia  Basin  project  includes  about  1,753,000  acres 
in  the  State  of  Washington,  as  just  stated,  for  which  there  is  an  abundance  of 
water  supply  if  properly  regulated:  and  those  two  tilings  are  fairly  accurately 
known,  within  the  accuracy  necessary  to  determine  feasibility  certainly,  but  the 
problem  of  getting  the  water  to  the  land  is  large  and  complicated,  because  it  is 
a  vast  enterprise. 

While  investigations  of  a  more  or  less  preliminary  nature  have  already  been 
made  as  described  and  more  than  $100,000  spent  on  those  investigations,  they 
have  included  a  great  deal  of  valuable  data.  But.  that  manifestly  could  not 
be  sufficient  to  determine  any  except  the  cursory,  rougher  facts  surrounding  the 
proposition. 


0  COLUMBIA   BASIX    IRRIGATION. 

It  is  generally  the  case  that  a  large  project,  with  large  engineering  problems 
involved,  requires  something  like  1  per  cent  of  the  cost  of  the  project  to  be 
devoted  to  the  investigation  of  different  alternatives  and  detailed  surveys,  so 
that  estimates  can  he  made  of  the  cost,  and  they  can  not  he  very  accurate 
nor  any  of  the  facts  be  very  thoroughly  brought  out  without  very  much 
larger  expenditure  than  has  yet  been  made  on  this  project. 

Senator  KENDRICK.  Mr.  Director,  may  I  interrupt  you? 

Director  DAVIS.   Certainly. 

Senator  KENDKICK.  It  was  to  ask  this  question :  Is  it  not  true  that  the  pre- 
liminary investigation  that  would  IK-  made  here  would  apply  with  a  good  deal 
of  direct  service  in  the  final  reclamation  of  the  project?  Would  it  not  be  use- 
ful in  the  reclamation  of  the  project? 

Director  DAVIS.  In  the  reclamation  of  this  project? 

Senator  KENDRICK.  Yes. 

Director  DAVIS.  Certainly.  What  has  been  done  by  the  engineers  already, 
and  what  is  to  be  done  under  the  provisions  of  this  bill,  would  be  necessary 
In  carrying  on  the  project  anyway. 

Senator  KENDBICK.  In  other  words,  the  information  would  be  along  the  line 
you  would  to  have  in  reclaiming  the  land? 

Director  DAVIS.  Oh  yes;  absolutely.  It  is  absolutely  necessary,  in  advance 
of  making  wise  plans  for  any  project,  to  determine  these  engineering  facts. 
They  have  been  determined  in  a  large  way  only,  and  the  details  have  not  been 
gone  into  because  of  lack  of  time  and  money. 

I  do  not  mean  to  imply  that  it  would  take  anything  like  1  per  cent  of 
the  total  cost  of  this  project,  which  would  be  $2,000,000  or  $3,000,000.  One 
per  cent  of  the  total  amount  would  be  that  much,  but  that  is  more  than  20  times 
as  much  as  has  now  been  spent,  and  further  information  is  absolutely  essential 
to  determine  the  main  features  with  the  accuracy  that  is  desirable  and  to  get 
the  project  in  the  shape  that  will  be  necessary  in  order  to  present  it  to  the 
Congress. 

Senator  JONES.  Do  you  think  $100,000  would  be  sufficient  to  do  that? 

Director  DAVIS.  No,  sir;  I  think  it  would  go  a  long  ways  toward  it.  The 
probabilities  are  that  some  further  investigations  would  develop  information 
as  to  the  necessary  further  expense ;  that  would  be  my  expectation.  I  do 
not  make  that  as  a  prediction,  simply  a  guess. 

Senator  JONES.  How  much  do  you  really  think  would  be  sufficient  to  secure 
the  data  necessary  to  make  a  report  upon  which  Congress  would  be  justified 
in  acting? 

Director  DAVIS.  That  is  a  difficult  thing  to  say,  with  the  state  of  my  infor- 
mation. Personally,  I  have  not  had  much  to  do  with  these  investigations.  I 
have  ridden  over  the  project  and  seen  the  main  points  of  construction.  But 

1  think  it  is  very  likely  that  an  additional  amount  of  at  least  as  much  as 
$100,000  would  be  necessary  after  this  is  expended,  but  that  can  not  be  said 
with  certainty  at  the  present  time  because   the  developments   of  facts  will 
answer  that  question  a  great  deal  better  than  I  can  at  the  present  time. 

The  CHAIBMAN.  Then,  I  understand,  Director  Davis,  this  is  not  the  final 
sum  that. will  be  needed  to  complete  this  investigation. 

Director  DAVIS.  I  know  that  if  the  Reclamation  Service  was  undertaking 
this  project  we  would  want  more  than  $100,000  for  the  examination. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  Let  me  ask  you  regarding  the  Secretary's  report :  If  section 
1  should  be  amended  so  as  to  include  the  salaries  of  the  commission,  do  you 
think  that  should  come  out  of  the  $100,000  or  will  the  different  departments 
furnish  men  to  make  the  survey  without  charge  upon  the  sum? 

Director  DAVIS.  I  have  no  information  or  assurance  that  any  department 
could  do  that  under  the  law,  unless  the  bill  were  mandatory  upon  the  point. 
Appropriations  are  made  for  certain  purposes.  The  Reclamation  Service  is 
the  only  appropriation  with  which  I  am  thoroughly  familiar.  You  could  not, 
under  the  present  laws,  detail  an  expert  to  this  work  and  pay  him  out  of  the 
Reclamation  fund.  I  think  that  is  a  question,  though,  that  is  open  to  some 
debate.  The  Secretary  might  think  otherwise.  But  in  view  of  his  report,  I 
think  he  takes  the  same  view. 

Senator  JONES.  You  probably  could  not  take  funds  out  of  the  Reclamation 
appropriation  and  divert  that  money  for  this  purpose? 

Director  DAVIS.  No. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  That  same  thing  would  not  apply  to  the  Department  of 
Commerce  and  the  other  departments? 


COLUMBIA   BASIX    IRRIGATION.  7 

Director  DAvrs.  No.  There  is  this  to  be  said :  Probably  the  Secretary's  pur- 
pose was  to  get  an  authorization  from  Congress  as  to  how  much  these  men 
were  to  be  paid,  because  there  is  no  doubt  the  $100,000  would  be  available  to 
pay  this  commission.  I  would  not  think  it  would  have  to  come  out  of  any  other 
appropriation  if  the  bill  is  passed  just  as  written,  but  the  fixing  of  those 
salaries  may  be  what  the  Secretary  had  in  mind. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  And  leave  the  responsibility  to  Congress. 

Senator  JONES.  What  suggestion  would  you  make,  Director,  as  to  the  salary 
of  the  experts? 

Director  DAVIS.  For  the  information  of  the  committee,  I  will  state  this :  The 
Reclamation  Service  has  detailed  to  the  examination  of  the  Columbia  Basin 
a  consulting  engineer,  D.  C.  Henny,  who  has  been  in  consultation  with  the 
Columbia  Basin  Commission  in  their  work,  and  has  also  been  a  member  of  a 
commission  appointed  acting  under  the  authority  of  the  Water  Power  Com- 
mission. They  studied  the  basin  at  large,  and  a  commission,  composed  of  a 
member  of  the  Reclamation  Service,  Mr.  Henny,  a  member  of  the  Corps  of  En- 
gineers, a  representative  of  the  Geological  Survey ;  and  there  are  also  repre- 
sentatives of  the  States  of  Washington,  Montana,  and  Idaho.  The  engineer 
that  we  appointed  to  that  work  received  a  salary  of  $30  a  day. 

The  CHAIKMAX.  That  would  be  about  $9,000  a  year? 

Director  DAVIS.  Approximately,  yes.  And  I  am  of  the  opinion  that  the  salaries 
at  a  less  amount  could  not,  as  a  financial  proposition,  command  the  proper 
talent  for  determining  this  question. 

Senator  WALSH.  If  it  were  not  for  the  suggestion  of  the  Secretary  in  this 
regard.  I  would  leave  it  just  exactly  as  it  is  and  let  the  Secretary  hire  the  man 
whom  he  thinks  will  do  the  work  best  and  make  a  bargain  with  him  the  best 
he  can  do. 

Director  DAVIS.  That  would  be  all  right,  except  that  three  Secretaries  are 
involved  and  the  question  is  not  clear. 

Senator  WALSH.  That  is  another  matter  that  ought  to  have  our  attention. 
One  member  of  the  commission  is  to  be  appointed  by  the  Secretary  of  the 
Interior,  who  is  to  be  a  qualified  irrigation  expert.  Of  course,  on  a  project 
of  this  kind  an  engineer  is  absolutely  essential ;  but  as  we  understand  the  term 
"  irrigation  expert "  out  in  our  country,  he  need  not  be  an  engineer  at  all ; 
an  irrigation  expert  with  us  is  a  man  who  knows  how  to  use  water  for  the 
purpose  of  irrigation,  and  not  a  man  who  knows  how  to  construct  an  irriga- 
tion plant — he  is  an  engineer.  I  should  think  that  would  be  an  irrigation 
engineer  instead  of  irrigation  expert. 

Director  £>AVIS.  I  suppose  it  is  intended  in  a  broad  sense  here,  though. 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  It  says  "  irrigation  expert " ;  you  might  substitute 
•"  engineer." 

Senator  KENDKICK.  Mr.  Director,  is  not  the  time  too  limited  there  to  make 
that  survey  and  report  January  21.  1923? 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  House  is  not  in  session. 

Director  DAVIS.  I  had  not  noticed  that.  That  is  certainly  too  short  a  time. 
I  am  inclined  to  think  that  is  an  inadvertence ;  that  probably  means  1924. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  Senator  Poindexter,  let  we  draw  your  attention  to  this : 
"  That  the  said  commission  shall  report  to  the  Secretary  of  the  Interior  as 
early  as  possible,  and  not  later  than  January  1,  1923."  Do  you  intend  that 
for  1924? 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  I  intended  it  to  read  just  as  it  is,  with  the  thought  that 
the  question  would  come  up  and  that  it  would  be  adjusted  in  accordance  with 
whatever  showing  might  be  made  here. 

Senator  JONES.  We  would  like  to  get  the  report  as  soon  as  possible. 

Senator  POINUEXTER.  It  does  not  say  final  report;  it  might  be  a  preliminary 
report  they  might  make.  But  the  idea  is  to  keep  the  thing  up  as  much  as 
possible  to  prevent  its  dragging  out  indefinitely.  If  they  find  they  can  not  con- 
clude their  investigations  by  that  time  they  can  report  to  that  effect. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  If  you  will  read  the  bill,  I  think  you  will  decide  that  the 
items  to  be  reported  upon  are  rather  specific — by  the  time  stated  they  must  give 
the  information  on  certain  points.  The  thing  to  do  is  to  change  the  date. 

The  CHAIKMAN.  It  says  "report  on  the  essential  features." 

Senator  POINDKXTKK.  I  have  no  objection  to  changing  the  date,  if  you  do  not 
put  it  off  too  long. 

Director  DAVIS.  Would  it  not  accomplish  the  purpose  by  leaving  out  the 
words  "Not.  later  than  January  1,  1923"  ? 


8  rOLUMMIA    15ASIN    IRRIGATION. 

Senator  POINDKXTKH.  You  might  put  in  •"  January  21,  1923,  or  as  soon  there- 
after as  possible." 

Senator  .IONKS.   Why  not  make  it  July  1.  1!>1'.">V 

Director  DAVIS.  That  would  be  right  in  the  middle  of  the  season,  if  any  field 
work  were  being  done.  January  1  is  a  much  more  appropriate  time  for  such 
a  report,  after  the  field  work  is  done. 

Senator  JONES.  Do  you  not  think  they  can  make  a  report  by  January  1? 

Director  DAVIS.  They  can  do  it  by  .January  1.  T.rJ4. 

Senator  JONES.  We  want  to  fix  a  time  within  which  this  report  should  come  in. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  How   would    September   1   do? 

Director  DAVIS.  That  would  be  better  than  July. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  I  can  appreciate  the  Senator's  reasons  for  wanting  to  have 
it  as  soon  as  possible.  We  can  not  tret  the  House's  action  <>n  this  before  the 
1st  of  September,  at  the  very  earliest.  I  do  not  know  whether  you  can  work 
during  the  winter. 

Director  DAVIS.  We  can  do  a  good  deal  of  work  during  the  winter,  but  it  is 
not  as  advantageous  as  during  the  summer.  I  think  the  Columbia  River  Com- 
mission had  $100,000  and  occupied  more  than  a  year,  and  I  think  certainly 
they  did  an  expeditious  job.  This  appropriates  the  same  amount  of  money  and 
ought  to  involve  a  similar  amount  of  work,  and  there  is  certainly  plenty  of 
work  to  do. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  The  water  power  possibility  is  quite  a  feature  in  this,  it 
seems  to  me,  referring  to  the  question  raised  by  the  Senator  from  Montana. 
How  many  dams  have  already  been  made  on  this  I 'end  Oreille  River? 

Director  DAVIS.  I  could  not  tell  you  how  many. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  There  is  a  point.  I  presume,  where  it  is  supposed  to  divert 
this  water. 

Director  DAVIS.  There  is  one  down  below  there  at  what  is  called  /  Canyon, 
and  there  are  a  number  above,  as  Senator  Walsh  pointed  out.  in  Montana. 
There  are  some  applications  up  there. 

Senator  WALSH.  Yes;  but  there  are  no  appropriations. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  It  is  seated  that  the  annual  flow  of  that  stream  is  about 
19,000,000  acre-feet,  and  just  about  a  third  is  supposed  to  be  diverted.  Is  that 
likely  to  cause  any  trouble  with  the  people  down  below  on  the  stream  who, 
presumably,  already  have  some  established  water  rights  or  tilings  that  they 
could  claim  would  be  interfered  with  by  this  diversion? 

Director  DAVIS.  I  do  not  know  of  any  established  water  rights  that  this 
would  interfere  with.  Some  people  might  claim  their  schemes  were  being 
interfered  with  for  the  future.  There  is  a  very  large  flow  at  I'asco. 

Senator  WTALSH.  That  need  not  concern  anybody,  but  because  their  rights 
would  be  prior  it  would  be  necessary  to  let  enough  water  come  down  to  supply 
their  needs. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  That  comes  back  to  the  other  feature.  And  then  I  was  going 
to  ask  about  the  seasonal  flow  of  this  stream.  Is  it  the  regular  run -off,  or  is 
it  the  flood  season? 

Director  DAVIS.  It  requires  storage  reservoirs,  and  there  are  very  large  sites 
for  that  purpose,  and  they  are  included  in  the  preliminay  estimates.  It  is 
necessary  to  provide  for  the  storage  of  flood  water  to  hold  it  in  reserve  for  the 
summer  when  needed. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  From  a  cursory  examination  of  this  report,  I  take  it  that 
the  flood  waters  would  be  stored  and  would  be  depended  upon  for  the  purpose 
of  irrigation.  But  that  is  one  of  the  problems,  as  you  know,  that  comes  in  right 
along,  as  to  its  dependability  and  its  interference  with  other  established  rights 
on  the  stream. 

Director  DAVIS.  The  established  rights  on  the  Columbia  are  relatively  very 
small.  It  is  the  largest  river  in  the  arid  region,  and  one  of  the  largest  rivers 
from  point  of  flow  in  the  United  States.  I  do  not  know  but  what  there  is  only 
one  other  with  a  larger  flow,  the  Mississippi.  thaf  discharges  more  water. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  What  are  the  prior  rights  in  Washington:  do  they  recognize 
beneficial  use  of  water? 

Director  DAVIS.  The  laws  of  Washington  are  different  west  of  the  mountains 
than  east  of  them.  East  of  the  mountains  they  recognize  beneficial  use  of 
water;  west  of  the  mountains  the  riparian  doctrine  applies. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  Do  you  think  riparian  rights  would  apply  in  this  case? 

Director  DAVIS.  I  think  no  riparian  rights  would  apply  here,  and  there  is 
relatively  little  use  of  this  river,  while  there  are  considerable  areas  irrigated 
from  it  and  power  developed. 


COLUMBIA   BASIN   IRRIGATION.  ,  9 

Senator  FHIPPS.  This  is  east  of  the  Cascade  range? 

Director  DAVIS.  Yes. 

Senator  JONES.  The  courts  have  held  riparian  rights  apply,  but  I  think  it 
has  been  modified.  But  they  did  declare  for  riparian  rights  in  the  case  of  the 
Yakima  project. 

Senator  WALSH.  Is  not  that  the.  California  doctrine  as  distinguished  from 
the  Colorado  doctrine? 

Senator  GIMME.  Is  not  this  a  unique  proposition  in  regard  to  the  drainage — 
having  a  river  to  drain  into — compared  to  the  other  projects?  Can  you  recall 
any  other  project  that  has  a  river  to  drain  into? 

Director  DAVIS.  Oh.  yes ;  most  of  them  do,  eventually.  This  is  a  river  to 
drain  into,  but  the  great  bulk  of  this  land  is  a  long  distance  from  the  river. 

Senator  ODDIE.  Yes;  but  I  would  consider  that  an  immediate  advantage. 
I  know  of  some  where  the  water  drains  into  a  sink  and  the  water  level  gradu- 
ally raises  and  in  time  will  be  a  detriment;  but  this,  I  should  say,  has  a  dis- 
tinct advantage  as  compared  to  other  projects. 

Director  DAVIS.  In  the  Boise  project  they  drain  into  the  Boise  River ;  and 
in  the  Minidoka  project  into  the  Snake  River;  and  most  of  them  drain  into 
the  rivers  which  are  not  far  away.  This  will  drain  into  the  Columbia  also. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  These  engineers  have  been  doing  the  work  on  the  project. 
Are  you  familiar  with  it? 

Director  DAVIS.  I  am  in  a  general  way.  Pasco  was  mentioned.  Pasco  has 
an  irrigated  area,  but  relative  to  the  Columbia,  it  is  very  small;  and  at  that 
point  the  Columbia  is  a  very  large  river,  compared  with  the  Pend  Oreille,  and 
all  of  the  waters  that  would  pass  out  of  the  Pend  Oreille  would  go  down  there 
as  well.  In  my  judgment  it  will  be  absolutely  impossible  from  any  engi- 
neering standpoint  to  ever  utilize  more  than  a  minor  fraction  of  the  Columbia 
River  waters  in  irrigation. 

Senator  KENDRICK.  I  can  understand  how  that  will  be  true  by  looking  at 
that  river.  I  do  not  believe  they  will  find  land  enough  within  the  drainage 
area  on  which  they  can  place  that  water  to  advantage. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  Was  this  Columbia  River  Basin  ever  listed  by  the  Recla- 
mation Service  as  one  of  the  feasible  and  desirable  projects  for  the  regular 
reclamation  work? 

Director  DAVIS.  We  have  that  included  in  the  irrigable  area  whenever  we 
have  submitted  reports. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  Is  it  your  idea  that  if  the  reclamation  bill,  now  pending 
before  the  Congress,  should  become  a  law  that  this  project  can  be  completed 
out  of  that  fund? 

Director  DAVIS.  That  depends  upon  the  way  in  which  it  passes.  I  was 
asked  that  question  in  the  State  of  Washington.  At  that  time  the  pending 
bill  carried  $250.000,000,  which  was  less  that  the  estimated  cost  of  this  project 
and,  of  course,  was  not  sufficient.  But  since  then  it  has  been  increased  to 
$350,000,000  appropriation. 

Senator  JONES.  It  is  a  revolving  fund,  too,  is  it  not? 

Director  DAVIS.  Yes ;  it  is  a  revolving  fund. 

Senator  SHOKTRIDGE.  At  what  point,  Mr.  Director,  is  the  water  to  be  di- 
verted ? 

Director  DAVIS.  The  map  shows  the  point,  right  where  the  Pend  Oreille 
crosses  the  Idaho-Washington  line.  The  diversion  works  are  in  Idaho,  but 
just  across  the  line. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  What  distance  is  that  water  carried  from  that  diversion  point 
to  the  main  bodies  of  land;  do  you  recall  the  figures? 

Director  DAVIS.  The  first  point,  down  to  Hillcrest.  the  distance  is  about  140 
miles.  Of  course,  the  main  body  of  the  land  is  still  farther  west. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  Is  it  going  to  be  necessary  to  make  this  division  all  the  way. 
<>r  will  they  use  some  of  the  drainage  of  streams  to  carry  the  water? 

Director  DAVIS.  There  are  different  streams.  There  are  a  number  of  long 
tunnels.  There  are  tire  or  six  dams  which  form  small  reservoirs,  at  which 
the  water  will  be  discharged  into  the  upper  end  and  taken  out  at  the  lower 
end.  and  for  short,  distances  lliey  use  natural  drainage  in  that  way. 

Senator  Pmpp.s.  .Most  of  the  way  there  must  be  excavation  and  sirtilicial 
channels'? 

Director  DAVIS.  Yes.  sir.  And  in  every  case  where  natural  drainage  lines  are 
used,  it  is  necessary  to  build  impounding  works  to  use  them. 

Tlie  < 'IIAIUM  AX.  Senator  I'oindexter,  whom  will  yon  next   call? 


10  COLUMBIA  BASIN   IRRIGATION. 

Senator  POINDEXTKK.  I  would  now  like  to  call  .Mr.  .1.  ('.  Ralston.  I  will  state 
that  Mr.  Ralston  is  an  engineer  of  distinction  and  has  been  connected  with  the 
work  carried  on  by  the  State  of  Washington. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  Mr.  Ralston.  wi>  will  be  glad  to  hear  you.  Please  give  your 
name  in  full  to  the  reporter. 

STATEMENT  OF  MB.  J.  C.  RALSTON,  SPOKANE,  WASH. 

Mr.  RALSTON.  My  name  is  J.  C.  Ralston;  my  address,  Spokane.  Wash. 

Senator  WALSH.  Let  me  understand  what  the  purpose  of  having  this  trans- 
portation expert  is.  What  is  he  supposed  to  do? 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  That  was  the  suggestion  of  the  Secretary  of  the  In- 
terior. I  suppose  his  idea  was  that  the  question  of  the  proximity  of  this  region 
to  the  markets  and  the  desirability  of  the  project  from  a  commercial  standpoint 
might  enter  into  it. 

Senator  KENDRICK.  Do  you  believe  it  is  necessary  to  have  the  Secretary  of 
Agriculture  determine  who  an  appointee  is  to  decide  whether  yours  is  an  agri- 
cultural State  or  not? 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  No ;  I  am  ready  to  decide  that  now. 

Senator  WALSH.  Director  Davis,  what  do  you  understand  by  this  "  trans- 
portation expert"? 

Director  DAVIS.  I  do  not  know  anything  about  what  was  in  the  mind  of 
those  who  drew  the  bill,  but  I  thought  the  idea  was  to  have  an  impartial 
commission  representing  three  different  departments  who  would  represent 
the  different  activities ;  and  the  only  explanation  I  think  of  is  the  one  given 
by  Senator  Poindexter. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  Is  not  this  particular  project  served  by  three  continental 
railroads? 

Director  DAVIS.  Yes,  sir ;  four. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  And  the  Columbia  River  is  navigable? 

Director  DAVIS.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  There  are  practically  four  continental  roads :  The 
Northern  Pacific,  the  O.  R.  &  N.,  the  Great  Northern,  and  the  Milwaukee. 

Senator  WALSH.  The  Great  Northern  is  not  nearer  than  Spokane. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  I  think  the  O.  R.  &  N.  was  the  name  of  the  original  line 
on  the  south  bank  of  the  Columbia.  On  the  north  bank  is  a  branch  of  the 
Northern  Pacific,  built  by  Hill,  down  the  Columbia  River,  in  order  to  avoid 
the  mountain  haul. 

Senator  JONES.  We  think  we  have  built  a  road  out  there,  Senator,  the 
Oregon-Washington  Railway  &  Navigation  Co.,  that  has  its  own  line  up  to 
Spokane.  In  addition  to  that,  we  have  the  Great  Northern  that  runs  right 
through  this  project.  We  have  the  Northern  Pacific  and  we  have  the  Mil- 
waukee— that  is  four. 

Senator  WALSH.  The  Great  Northern  runs  through  it? 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  Absolutely,  right  through  the  heart  of  it ;  some  of  the 
most  important  land  on  the  project,  in  fact,  runs  right  through  the  great 
Quincy  Valley. 

^Senator  KENDRICK.  In  additiqn  to  all  that,  you  have  the  navigation  in  the 
river  V 

Senator  POINDEXTEH.  Absolutely. 

Mr.  RALSTON.  I  have  been  familiar  with  this  territory  for  twenty-odd  year-. 
roughly  familiar  with  this  particular  general  project  for  10  years,  and  spe- 
cifically and  definitely  and  technically  familiar  with  it  since  1910. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  Does  the  record  show  your  profession  and  where  your 
activities  have  been  directed  during  the  last  year? 

Mr.  RALSTON.  I  have  been  consulting  engineer  for  all  the  period  of  which 
I  have  spoken,  and  consulting  engineer  for  the  Columbia  Basin  Irrigation 
Commission  from  its  inception  until  it  was  taken  over  and  became  a  definite 
function  of  the  State. 

Senator  WALSH.  Will  you  tell  us  what  this  Columbia  Basin  Irrigation  Com- 
mission is? 

Mr.  RALSTON.  It  was  a  commission  of  five  or  six  gentlemen  who  were  chosen 
by  the  governor  of  the  State  to  represent  the  State  in  the  expenditure  of  an 
appropriation  of  $100,000,  afterwards  augmented  by  $50.000,  for  the  purpose 
of  preparing,  or  causing  to  be  prepared,  a  report  to  be  submitted  to  the  gov- 
ernor on  the  project  in  general. 

I  think  I  may  say  this,  to  be  as  brief  as  possible ;  as  you  gentlemen  already 
have  a  fairly  representative  syllabus  of  this  situation  as  given  by  Senator 


COLUMBIA  BASIN   IRRIGATION.  11 

Poindexter  and  supplemented  by  Director  Davis:  In  a  word,  it  is  proposed  to 
irrigate  something  less  than  2,000,000  acres  of  irrigable  land,  the  water  to  be 
derived  from  a  branch  of  the  Columbia  River,  the  low-water  flow  of  which  is 
three  times  greater  than  the  maximum  amount  of  water  which  will  be  de- 
manded .by  this  project  when  it  is  in  complete  full  operation.  The  supply  of 
that  water,  as  you  have  already  been  told,  comes  from  a  drainage  area  the 
eastern  ends  of  which  extend  up  to  the  Continental  Divide.  The  supply, 
therefore,  may  be  regarded  as  not  only  sufficient  but  entirely  dependable  in 
every  regard. 

In  the  courses  of  these  larger  rivers  coming  down  and  flowing  into  the  pro- 
posed storage  basin  and  equalizing  the  lakes  which  now  happily  exist,  certain 
powers  may  be  developed,  applications  for  some  of  which  I  understand  have 
been  made.  Fortunately,  in  this  situation,  the  conditions  in  the  field  are 
such  that  that  power  can  be  developed  entirely  independent  of  any  irrigation 
work,  and  the  water  to  be  diverted  into  these  lands  will  have  flowed  through  all 
power  plants  that  may  ever  be  constructed.  So  that  any  regulatory  works 
that  may  be  put  in  or  equalizing  dams  will  only  go  toward  assisting  in  the 
ultimate  development  of  the  power  in  question.  Thus  it  would  seem  that  there 
could  be  no  controversy  as  between  irrigation  on  the  one  side  and  power  011 
the  other. 

The  matter  of  the  diversion  of  this  water  from  the  State  line  between 
Washington  and  Idaho  is  at  a  point  called  Albany  Falls  on  the  river,  a  nat- 
ural diversion  point,  as  the  water  falls  over  a  ledge  of  rock  there.  You  may 
stand  on  the  banks  or  on  any  of  the  highlands  along  the  river  and  see  the 
bedrock  revealed  throughout  the  entire  cross  section  of  that  proposed  diver- 
sion. 

It  would  therefore  seem  that  so  far  as  any  further  investigation  is  con- 
cerned, necessary  for  further  work,  that  at  that  point  at  least,  would  De 
unnecessary.  From  that  point  down  140  miles,  the  point  referred  to  by  Di- 
rector Davis,  the  point  at  which  the  lines  will  begin  to  diverge  and  distribute 
themselves  over  the  areas,  is  made  up  of  a  series  of  natural  and  usual  type  of 
ditch,  though  exceptionally  large;  a  series  of  natural  ponds  to  be  created,  it  is 
true,  by  an  impounding  dam  at  the  logical  outlet  to  each  area,  and  of  a  series 
of  tunnels,  together  with  a  substantial  length  of  natural  channel  and  natural 
interconnected  lakes.  So  that  by  the  clearing  out  of  those  natural  channels 
you  have  a  measurable  proportion  of  the  total  conduit  already  constructed. 

From  the  point  of  diversion  at  Hillcrest,  referring  to  the  map  I  hold  in  my 
hand,  which  shows  the  upper  northeast  corner  of  the  1,753,000  acres  to  be 
irrigated — the  whole  area,  speaking  in  general  terms — and  I  take  the  liberty 
of  presenting  it  in  this  way — it  may  clarify  these  questions  of  drainage  and 
accessibility  from  the  standpoint  of  the  delivery  of  water :  This  area  specifically 
lies  on  the  Columbia  River  Plateau.  That  plateau  may  be  likened  to  the  roof 
of  a  house ;  the  upper  edge  is  the  escarpment  at  Spokane,  the  lower  edge  of 
which  is  the  Columbia  River  and  .the  Snake  River.  The  fall  from  the  upper 
end  of  this  area  to  its  lower  drip  end  there  [indicating]  is  between  1,200  and 
1,400  feet  in  a  distance  of  from  90  to  120  miles  across  that  area.  That  will 
give  you  some  rough  notion  of  the  gradient  inherently  within  the  project 
which  may  be  taken  advantage  of  for  the  purpose,  if  there  is  to  be  any  arti- 
ficial drainage  at  all,  and  to  supplement  and  make  it  feasible. 

One  part  of  the  area  does  require  definite  drainage  works.  These  works 
have  already  been  estimated. 

That,  then,  may  be  said  to  be,  very  briefly,  the  physical  phases  of  the 
situation. 

There  are  four  transcontinental  railroads  passing  this  area.  It  is  to-day, 
while  crossed  by  these  roads,  nevertheless  a  sagebrush  desert,  speaking  in 
general  terms.  While  it  is  true  dry  farming  has  been  attempted  on  parts  of 
it,  yet  if  an  average  yield  of  five  to  seven  bushels  of  grain  to  the  acre  year 
in  and  year  out  were  obtained,  I  think  the  farmers  would  be  very  happy 
indeed.  There  are  very  many  lean  years  when  they  do  not  even  get  that. 

Senator  KENDRICK.  Is  it  proposed  in  this  description  to  pump  all  of  this 
water  to  the  higher  levels? 

Mr.  RALSTON.  No  pumping  will  be  necessary ;  it  is  all  gravity.  There  was 
a  suggestion  which  came  up  involving  pumping,  but  that  was  found  to  be 
unfeasible,  and  so  was  rejected.  The  report  of  the  original  commission  ap- 
pointed by  the  governor,  seeking  to  satisfy  all  inquiries,  covered  not  only  the 
pumping  project  of  the  Columbia,  but  another  gravity  system  from  the  foothills 


12  COLUMBIA   BASIN   IRRIGATION. 

of  the  Cascades,  together  also  with  this  project ;  and  in  that  way  they  em- 
bodied that  pumping  system  and  idea. 

The  economic  side  of  it  is  merely,  in  its  last  cold  analysis,  the  creation  of  a 
continuing  asset  which  will  yield  every  two  years  gross- — when  it  is  ;i!l  in  culti- 
vation— as  much  as  the  entire  capital  investment  in  the  project:  and  will  yield 
probably  in  every  12  years  or  less  net  MS  much  MS  the  entire  investment. 

The  CHAIKM  AN.  The  project,  as  I  recall  it,  contemplates  the  expenditure  <>f 
practically  $200  an  acre.  That  was  based  upon  war  prices,  I  understand.  Do 
you  think  there  has  been  a  material  recession  from  that  figure? 

Mr.  RALSTON.  A  very  material  one.  I  sat  in  in  the  making  of  that  estimate. 
and  we  sought  everywhere  the  peak  of  that  time. 

The  CHAIBM.VX.  Can  you  give  a  fair  estimate  of  the  probable  cost  per  acre 
at  this  time? 

Mr.  RALSTON.  My  judgment  is.  in  the  light  of  the  present  and  the  costs  as 
they  are  now,  and  based  upon  the  fact  that  a  large  part  of  my  work  is  given 
over  to  the  preparation  of  bids  and  cost  estimates  for  contractors  actually  in 
business,  that  this  project  now  at  the  present  time  will  cost  somewhere  in  the 
vicinity  of  $125  an  acre. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  In  the  light  of  the  survey  you  have  made  of  this  project  and 
the  time  given  to.it,  do  you  think  it  is  necessary  that  the  Secretary  of  Com- 
merce should  place  a  qualified  transportation  expert  on  the  work? 

Mr.  RALSTON.  I  have  been  a  little  vague  on  that,  Senator,  excepting  in  this. 
unless  there  be  a  question  of  colonization.  If  you  have  in  mind  something  of 
that  kind,  then  possibly  the  subject  of  transportation  will  be  involved.  But 
even  then  it  would  be  secondary. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  Is  there  any  question  about  the  study  of  the  soil  in  this 
project? 

Mr.  RALSTON.  A  very  complete  soil  survey  has  been  made  by  the  State  com- 
mission, of  which  I  spoke,  at  the  time  of  the  preparation  of  the  report  which  has 
been  submitted. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  Do  you  think  it  would  be  helpful  to  have  the  Secretary  of 
Agriculture  appoint  a  soil  expert? 

Mr.  RALSTON.  Such  a  man  would,  of  course,  be  of  assistance  at  least  in  an 
advisory  way,  I  should  imagine. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  character  of  the  soil,  its  composition  and  plant  food 
content,  is  well  known,  is  it  not? 

Mr.  RALSTON.  Yes,  sir. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  And  it  runs  about  the  same  all  through  that  project,  does 
it  not? 

Mr.  RALSTON.  Yes,  speaking  in  general  terms.  Its  texture  is  the  same-- 
though  it  varies  in  different  localities,  as  in  the  Yakima  project.  But  broadly 
speaking,  the  fertility  of  the  soil  seems  to  be  well  known. 

Senator  KKNDRICK.  As  having  direct  bearing  upon  the  feasibility  of  the  pro- 
ject, I  would  like  to  ask  you  what  is  the  value  of  your  irrigated  land  in  that 
section  of  the  country,  that  is  now  in  cultivation  and  for  which  yon  have 
markets? 

Mr.  RALSTON.  The  nearest  large  area  is  the  famous  Yakima  area,  the  values 
of  which  run  all  the  way  from  $300  to  $2,000  an  acre,  and  possibly  more. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  Those  larger  figures  are  covered  now  with  bearing  fruit 
trees? 

Mr.  RALSTON.  It  is  true  they  are  producing.  I  understood  the  Senator  to 
mean  the  cultivated  soil. 

Senator  KENDRICK.  No,  I  mean  the  soil  in  cultivation  and  improved. 

Senator  WALSH.  Mr.  Ralston,  when  you  give  us  the  figure  of  $125  an  acre 
or  $200  an  acre,  do  yon  make  any  allowance  at  all  for  the  water  power  develop- 
ment? 

Mr.  RALSTON.  In  neither  direction.  I  think  the  water  power  would  come 
along  and  take  care  of  itself  when  there  was  a  market  for  it. 

Senator  WALSH.  No,  that  is  not  the  point  at  all.  In  order  to  store  the  water, 
either  in  the  Flathead  lakes  or  in  Lake  Pend  Oreille.  yon  have  got  to  put 
enormous  dams  in.  Take  Flathead  Lake;  you  would  be  obliged  to  flood  a 
great  area  of  lands  that  are  now  highly  productive. 

Mr.  K.M.STON.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  WAI.SM.  And,  of  course,  that  would  involve  a  very  considerable  ex- 
pense to  acquire  that  land.  And  then  you  have  got  to  put  in  dams.  In  order 
to  complete  the  power  plant,  all  you  have  got  to  do  is  to  put  in  the  development 
station.  So  that  the  construction  necessary  to  store  the  water,  goes  a  long 


COLUMBIA   BASIN   IRRIGATION.  13 

ways  toward  the  development  of  a  water  power  plant.  Do  these  figures  rep- 
resent the  actual  costs  there  will  be,  without  any  deduction  whatever  for 
the  power  development? 

Mr.  UALSTON.  It  represents  all  of  those  costs  which  would  be  involved  in 
the  making  of  the  necessary  works 

Senator  WALSH   (interposing).  That  does  not  answer  my  question  at  all. 

Senator  POINDEXTEB.  You  understand  Senator  Walsh's  question?  He  wants 
to  know  if  you  have  offset  against  the  cost  the  value  of  the  power  development? 

Mr.  RALSTON.  No. 

Senator  POINUEXTER.  I  understand  they  have  not  done  that. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  What  power  possibility  would  there  be  in  connection  with 
this  dam  below  the'FIathead  Lake?  Of  course,  it  is  understood  when  talking 
of  that  that  you  do  not  take  water  out  from  the  lakes,  but  take  it  out  below. 
But  how  much  drop  would  there  be  down  to  the  canal  at  that  point,  or  what 
drop  from  there  down? 

Senator  WALSH.  The  diversion  canal  is  hundreds  of  miles  below. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  I  understand  that. 

Senator  WALSH.  There  would  be  no  loss  in  the  water  in  utilizing  it  for  power 
purposes;  it  would  just  simply  go  back  into  the  river  and  then  be  utilizable. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  What  drops  can  you  get  at  the  dam  or  what  drops  from 
there  down  that  could  be  utilized ;  that  is,  whether  that  has  been  taken  into 
account  ? 

Senator  WALSH.  The  level  of  Flathead  Lake  is  about  3,500  feet,  and  these 
lands  are  what  elevation? 

Mr.  RALSTON.  One  thousand  seven  hundred  feet  and  less. 

Senator  KKNDRICK.  What  would  you  consider  the  advantages  of  the  investiga- 
tion, if  made  under  the  Reclamation  Service  or  if  made  through  a  commission? 

Mr.  RALSTON.  I  do  not  know,  sir,  about  that ;  it  would  depend  entirely  upon 
the  type  of  men,  whether  on  the  part  of  the  reclamation  people  or  on  the  part  of 
a  separate  commission. 

Senator  SHORTRIDGE.  Senator  Poindexter,  pursuing  that  talk,  why  a  separate 
commission?  Are  there  not  now  instrumentalities  of  the  Government  that  could 
make  this  investigation  and  furnish  the  sought-for  and  desired  information? 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  That  is  possibly  true,  but  it  is  a  project  of  such  magni- 
tude. Senator,  that  it  would  overwhelm  the  existing  bureaus  and  commissions. 
They  would  have  to  reorganize  themselves  to  undertake  a  work  of  this  kind, 
and  it  was  upon  consultation  particularly  with  Secretary  Fall,  and  Senator 
Jones,  and  myself  that  considered  the  desirability  of  treating  this,  on  account 
of  its  size,  along  with  such  projects  as  the  Colorado  Basin  project,  as  an  in- 
dependent thing.  Of  course,  it  will  operate  and  will  have  to  operate  with  the 
assistance  and  advice  of  the  Reclamation  Service  and  of  any  other  bureaus  of 
the  Government  that  are  available. 

Senator  SHORTRIDGE.  There  would  be  no  clash  or  overlapping  of  work? 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  Not  at  all.  It  is  the  very  earnest  wish  on  the  part  of 
everybody  connected  with  it  to  avoid  anything  of  that  kind. 

Senator  JONES.  It  is  not  really  contemplated  that  this  commission  should 
actually  construct  the  work;  this  commission  should  investigate  and  report  to 
Congress. 

Senator  WALSH.  Well.  Senator,  this  provides  for  the  appointment  of  one  mem- 
ber of  this  commission  by  the  Secretary  of  the  Interior,  the  appointment  of  one 
member  by  the  Secretary  of  Agriculture,  and  the  appointment  of  a  third  mem- 
ber by  the  Secretary  of  Commerce.  The  Reclamation  Service  has  obviously 
learned  a  whole  lot  by  the  experience  of  lid  years,  and  I  am  sure  they  would  be 
willing  to  put  their  information  and  experience  at  the  disposal  of  this  commis- 
sion. But  when  the  commission  is  appointed,  they  will  do  as  they  please  in 
spending  this  $100.000.  and  they  may  or  may  not  hire  an  engineer  and  conduct 
their  own  work  without  paying  very  much  attention  to  the  Reclamation 
Service. 

Senator  POIXDKXTER.  There  would  be  one  man  appointed  by  the  Secretary  of 
the  Interior. 

Senator  WALSH.  That  is  all  the  control  he  would  have  over  him.  After  he 
appoints  him.  that  is  the  end  of  it;  it  is  not  even  done  under  his  supervision. 

I  was  wondering  why  we  should  not  just  simply  authorize  the  Secretary  of 
the  Interior  to  conduct  this  investigation.  Then  if  he  needs  a  soil  expert  he 
can  easily  -et  one  on  the  recommendation  of  the  Secretary  of  Agriculture,  and 
if  he  needs  a  transportation  expert  one  of  those  could  be  found. 

Senator  Poixnr.xm:.  One  of  (lie  objects  of  bringing  other  departments  of 
the  Government  into  it  was  to  broaden  the  investigation  and  get  all  the  possible 


14  COLUMBIA   BASIN    IRRIGATION. 

,  viewpoints.  There  are  many  aspects  of  the  question  that  go  beyond  the  mere 
matter  of  the  work  itself,  and.  of  course,  what  you  say  about  irrigation  is 
equally  applicable  to  the  Department  of  Agriculture,  when  it  comes  to  usage 
to  which  this  project  will  be  put,  in  case  it  should  be  built;  and  then  the 
question  of  the  commercial  development  of  it  afterwards  it  equally  within 
the  special  knowledge  of  the  Department  of  Commerce. 

Senator  WALSH.  Then,  why  not  make  these  three  secretaries  the  commission? 

Senator  POINDKXTER.  I  have  no  objection  to  that;  in  fact,  to  tell  the  truth, 
that  was  my  original  suggestion.  This  subsequent  suggestion  was  by  the  Sec- 
retary of  the  Interior,  for  whom  I  have  great  respect  and  want  to  work  in 
harmony  with  him. 

Senator  JONES.  At  the  suggestion  of  Senator  Walsh,  who  refers  to  having 
this  done  under  the  Secretary  of  the  Interior,  it  strikes  me  that  suggestion  is 
a  very  good  one,  and  then  let  the  Secretary  use  such  means  as  lie  deems  wise 
to  carry  it  on. 

Senator  WALSH.  I  do  not  see  why  you  want  to  take  it  out  from  under  his 
supervision. 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  I  would  raise  no  question  about  that.  It  is  a  question 
of  means  to  the  end,  and  if  the  committee  would  like  to  consign  it  to  the 
Secretary  of  the  Interior  it  would  be  entirely  agreeable  to  me. 

Senator  KENDRICK.  It  would  be  the  more  practical  and  direct  way  of  ap- 
proaching it. 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  Very  probably. 

Senator  SHORTRIDGE.  In  order  to  develop  those  ideas,  I  am  inclined  to  agree 
with  Senator  Walsh. 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  Next  I  will  ask  the  committee  to  hear  from  a  gentleman 
who  has  been  very  generally  referred  to  as  the  father  of  this  project,  Mr.  E.  F. 
Elaine. 

STATEMENT  OF  MB.  E.  F.  ELAINE,  SEATTLE,  WASH. 

Mr.  ELAINE.  I  believe  this  is  the  first  time  in  the  history  of  reclamation  in  the 
United  States  where  a  State  for  an  investigation  of  a  project  has  put  up  such 
a  large  sum  of  money  as  $150,000.  It  so  happens  that  some  four  years  ago  I 
appealed  to  the  finance  committee  of  the  Legislature  of  the  State  of  Washington 
to  make  the  first  appropriation  of  $100,000.  That  money  has  been  properly 
expended,  and  it  has  shown  a  condition  to  exist  out  in  the  Northwest  in  the 
State  of  Washington,  to  which  sooner  or  later  the  attention  of  the  whole 
Nation  is  bound  to  be  called.  The  situation,  however,  is  not  free  from  its 
difficulties.  I  know  from  long  experience  in  reclamation  that  a  cost  of  $145  an 
acre — and  that  is  the  cost  estimated  by  Major  General  Goethals — is  a  high 
acre  cost.  But  there  are  elements  out  there  which,  if  properly  controlled,  will 
tend  greatly  to  reduce  that  acre  cost. 

The  Senator  from  Montana  has  already  called  attention  to  the  thought  I 
have  in  mind,  that  in  some  manner  or  other  the  hydroelectric  development 
of  the  Pend  Oreille  River,  equalized  by  dams  at  the  Flathead  and  Pend  Oreille 
Lakes,  should  bear  a  certain  burden  of  this  cost. 

Flathead  Lake  is  some  800  or  900  feet  above  Pend  Oreille  Lake,  the  waters 
from  Flathead  Lake  flow  through  Flathead  River  into  the  Pend  Oreille  Lake, 
and  between  these  two  lakes  it  is  estimated  that  about  900,000  horsepower  of 
hydroelectric  energy  can  be  developed. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  Did  you  say  900,000? 

Mr.  ELAINE.  Yes,  nearly  a  million  horsepower  can  be  developed  between  those 
two -points.  That  is  power  that  can  be  generated  by  the  waters  of  Montana. 

There  is  a  matter  of  adjustment  between  Montana  and  the  other  States 
interested  in  those  waters.  That  power,  without  any  question,  will  be  de- 
veloped somewhere  between  Flathead  Lake  and  Pend  Oreilte  Lake.  It  will  be 
geographically  nicely  situated  for  distribution. 

Your  attention  has  been  called  to  the  fact  that  the  flow  of  the  Pend  Oreille 
River,  as  averaged  by  years,  is  19,000.000  acre-feet,  and  it  will  only  take  five  or 
six  million  acre-feet  to  irrigate  the  2,000.000  acres  of  land  in  the  Big  Bend  of 
the  Columbia,  leaving  a  large  amount  of  water  still  unused. 

There  are  two  ways  of  using  that  water.  You  can  allow  it  to  flow  on  down 
the  Pend  Oreille  River  and  go  over  the  falls  at  Metaline.  where  there  is  a  very 
great  drop  in  the  Columbia  River;  and  then  go.  on  into  British  Columbia 


COLUMBIA   BASIN    1RBIGATION.  15 

through  drops  in  the  river  there,  where  there  may  in  the  future  be  electrical 
development. 

But  in  connect' on  with  the  diversion  rf  the  water  at  Albany  Falls,  all  of 
tlu>  water  can.  MS  a  matter  cf  fact,  be  brought  to  Spokane  and  dropped  into  the 
Spokane  River,  the  Spokane  River  having  from  the  city  of  Spokane  to  the 
Columbia  a  drop  of  1.000  feet  or  more.  Already  There  are  controlling  works 
on  that  stream  to  take  care  of  the  flood,  and  if  this  additional  water  was 
broutrht  there  an:l  put  through  the  present  works  and  other  works  the  develop- 
ment along  the  Spokane  River  and  the'drops  in  the  canals,  in  addition  to  the 
deve'opment  between  the  two  lakes  I  hav^  mentioned,  would  equal  nearly 
anrther  million  horsepower  of  hydroelectric  energy.  In  my  judgment,  vbis 
liydroelectr'c  energy  that  is  developed  by  the  waters  of  the  river  below  Fend 
Oreille  Lake  should  be  in  some  way  or  other  associated  with  the  2,000.000 
acres  of  land  to  be  reclaimed,  because  there  is  no  question  that  the  reclamation 
of  these  2.000,000  acres  of  land  is  going  to  result  in  one  of  the  most  intense 
developments  anywhere  in  the  known  world.  It  is  going  to  be  as  intense,  in 
my  mind,  as  that  of  the  Yakima  Valley,  and  I  am  very  familiar  with  conditions 
in  the  Yakima  Valley.  I  have  been  associated  with  that  development  for  2O 
years,  been  instrumental  in  the  settlement  of  those  lands,  and  I  know  the  size 
of  farms  in  the  Yakima  Valley  to-day  is  some  22  acres  under  the  Sunnyside 
Canal.  Through  the  whole  valley  the  size  of  the  irrigated  farms  is  not  much 
higher  than  that.  In  the  Wenatchee  Valley  the  size  of  the  fruit  tracts  only- 
run  about  10  acres. 

But  in  the  intense  development  of  this  project  there  is  going  to  be  some  very 
large  cities.  In  my  judgment,  the  second  city  of  the  Northwest  will  probably  be 
within  this  project,  because  the  Columbia  River  is  navigable  right  up  to  the 
city  of  Pasco.  and  the  Pasco  and  the  most  of  the  railroads  over  there  gravitate 
toward  Pasco.  So  that  you  are  going  to  have  a  very  happy  situation  in  the 
future  in  the  distribution  of  commodities.  The  rates,  of  course,  by  river  navi- 
gation are  going  to  influence  the  railroad  rates. 

So  we  are  going  to  have  in  all  probability  a  very  intensive  development. 

This  hydroelectric  energy  should  be  associated  with  that  development  and  if 
associated  with  that  development  in  the  years  to  come  it  ought  to  bear  and 
will  in  all  probability  bear  one-half  the  total  cost  of  this  enterprise.  In  other 
words,  I  think  we  ought  to  carry  out  in  regard  to  this  project  here  just  exactly 
what  has  been  suggested  by  Director  Davis  in  the  reclamation  of  the  lower 
Colorado  Basin,  making  the  hydroelectric  energy  bear  a  part  of  the  burden 
of  the  cost  of  the  works. 

I  have  another  thought  in  mind,  and  that  is  this:  That  this  land  to-day  is 
practically  worthless.  They  have  tried  to  farm  a  considerable  portion  of  it  and 
have  failed.  There  is  a  large  amount  of  it  in  sagebrush,  it  is  true.  But  you 
can  travel  for  miles  over  this  land  and  you  will  see  nothing  but  vacant  houses 
in  a  very  low  state  of  dilapidation. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  On  that  point,  is  there  any  Government  land  within  the  con- 
fines of  this  project? 

.Mr.  BLAINE.  About  5.4  per  cent  of  it  is  Government  lands. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  For  what  sum  were  these  private  lands  sold? 

Mr.  BI.ATNE.  Oh,  on  an  average  they  would  not  be  worth  to-day  $10  an  acre ; 
probably  $5  an  acre.  A  lot  of  it  you  can  buy,  for  example,  the  railroad  lands 
in  there,  for  $1.25  an  acre. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  Is  some  of  it  railroad  lands? 

Mr.  BLAINE.  Yes. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  What  proportion? 

Mr.   BLAINE.  Five  or   six  per  cent. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  And  90  per  cent  privately  owned? 

Mr.  BLAINE.  Yes,  but  in  very  large  holdings.  It  is  almost  an  ideal  territory 
to  be  developed.  There  is  no  reason  why  all  of  it  should  not  be  thrown  within 
a  reclamation  district  and  all  the  property  within  the  district  be  made  to  bear 
the  burden. 

As  these  elements  all  enter  into  this  proposition,  I  think  now  is  the  time  to 
continue  these  investigations  and  not  waste  any  time.  If  we  take  the  waters 
from  the  Pend  Oreille  or  divert  the  water  of  the  Pend  Oreille.  we  must 
settle  then  with  the  neighboring  Province  of  British  Columbia.  A  treaty  al- 
ready exists  under  which  that  settlement  can  be  made,  but  we  pay  for  all  dain- 

2894—22 2 


16  COLUMBIA  BASIN    IRRIGATION. 

ages.  If  we  get  this  project  going  before  there  is  a  development  on  the  drops 
of  the  Pend  Oreille,  within  British  Columbia,  we  will  have  less  to  pay  than 
though  we  permit  that  development  to  go  ahead. 

So  there  is  one  strong  reason  here  why  this  investigation  should  be  taken  up 
now  by  the  Secretary  of  the  Interior  and  carried  along. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  You  see  no  objections  to  placing  the  work  to  be  done  under 
this  bill  exclusively  under  the  Secretary  of  the  Interior,  so  he  can  employ 
reclamation  experts,  do  you? 

Mr.  ELAINE.  No;  it  is  absolutely  indifferent  to  me.  Of  course,  there  is  this 
feature — something  was  said  about  a  soil  expert.  I  have  had  this  in  mind,  that 
any  soil  expert  can  but  enlarge  upon  the  fertility  of  this  great  section,  and 
could  present  that  matter  properly  before  Congress,  because  few  people  can 
appreciate  the  richness  of  the  soil.  It  is  a  volcanic  ash  of  great  depth,  only  re- 
quiring the  sagebrush  to  be  taken  off,  and  the  cost  of  leveling  it  will  be  the 
lowest  probably  in  any  part  of  the  United  States. 

Senator  WALSH.  I  did  not  quite  understand  your  contention  about  the  British 
Columbia  interests.  How  are  they  involved? 

Mr.  BLAINK.  The  Pend  Oreille  River  makes  an  elbow  in  British  Columbia  be- 
fore it  joins  the  Columbia.  ju*t  elbows  into  British  Columbia. 

Senator  WALSH.  Where  does  it  elbow  into  British  Columbia  ? 

Mr.  ELAINE.  This  map  shows  you. 

Senator  WALSH.  But  the  Northern  Pacific  follows  Flathead  clear  down  to 
where  it  empties  into  Pend  Oreille  Lake? 

Mr.  ELAINE.  Yes.  but  the  Pend  Oreille  River  starts  at  the  Pend  Oreille  Lake, 
goes  through  British  Columbia  and  flows  into  the  Columbia  in  our  own  territory. 

Senator  WALSH.  There  is  another  thing:  Mr.  Elaine,  have  you  contemplated 
the  question  of  the  existence  of  lands  in  Montana  that  might  be  irrigated  by 
these  waters? 

Mr.  ELAINE.  Any  lands  in  Montana  that  probably  could  be  irrigated  by  the 
waters  of  the  Flathead  Lake  and  River  would  have  to  be  pumped,  and  you 
might  utilize  the  power  to  be  developed  between  the  two  lakes  in  that  way. 
That  would  be  a  part  of  this  investigation,  in  my  judgment. 

Senator  WALSH.  But  it  is  not  provided  for ;  that  is  what  I  want  to  call  at- 
tention to. 

Mr.  ELAINE.  It  is  a  part,  as  I  understand,  of  this  bill. 

'  Senator  WALSH.  No ;  this  commission  is  to  report  on  the  essential  features 
of  the  proposed  Columbia  Rive:1  Basin  irrigation  project.  Now,  without  otherwise 
defining  it,  that  is  all.  Of  course,  Congress  does  not  take  judicial  notice  at 
least  of  what  the  Columbia  River  irrigation  project  is,  but  the  investigation  is 
to  include  the  following  particulars : 

"  Its  water  supply  and  the  permanency  and  sufficiency  thereof ;  the  approxi- 
mate watershed  from  which  said  water  supply  is  to  be  derived  and  what,  if  any, 
natural  reservoirs  such  as  lakes,  are  available  for  the  storing  of  surplus  waters 
for  the  said  land." 

That  is  the  first  time  that  "  land  "  occurs  in  the  bill. 

Senator  PQINDEXTEB.  We  will  let  you  fix  that  up,  Senator.  I  think  you  are 
about  as  good  a  phraseologist  and  literary  man  as  could  be  found.  I  think  your 
criticism  is  valuable. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  I  did  not  get  that. 

Senator  POINDKXTKK.  It  states  "said  lands,"  and  the  Secretary  suggested  that 
we  designate  land  as"  located  in  these  States.  I  have  no  objection  at  all  to 
any  more  definite  designation. 

Senator  JONES.  "  Said  land  "  only  refers  to  the  land  within  the  project. 

Senator  WALSH.  It  says  "available  for  the  soring  of  surplus  waters  for  the 
said  land." 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  It,  means  the  lands  of  the  said  project. 

Senator  WALSH.  That  is  a  mere  matter  of  verbiage,  but  the  point  I  want  to 
direct  your  atten  ion  to  is  that  the  lands  are  not  specifically  defined  here.  This 
is  a  matter,  of  course,  of  very  great  consequence  to  my  State.  I  think  I  have 
heretofore  expressed  some  views  to  you  on  this  subject.  It  has  excited  no 
little  apprehension  upon  the  part  of  owners  of  land  at  the  head  of  Flathead 
Lake,  who  wrote  me  in  vigorous  protest  against  the  project.  I  have  answered 
them  that  the  fact  that  lands  will  be  Hooded  in  order  to  carry  out  the  project 
would  probably  not  be  regarded  as  a  very  valid  objection  to  the  prosecir.ion  of 
a  great  work  of  development  of  this  character.  But,  of  course,  the  private 


COLUMBIA   BASIN    IRRIGATION.  17 

owners  of  lands  would  have  to  be  reimbursed  for  any  damage  done  to  their 
lands  or  for  lands  taken. 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  That  has  been  estimated  in  the  cost. 
Senator  WALSH.  But  there  is  another  feature  to  which  I  want  to  invite  your 
attention,  and  that  is  that  all  of  these  waters  that  will  be  impounded  in  the 
Flathead  Lake  come  from  the  State  of  Montana,  and  they  are  to  go  out  of  the 
State  of  Montana  into  the  State  of  Washington,  and  I  am  inclined  to -believe 
that  our  people  will  insist  upon  adequate  provision  for  the  retention  of  all 
water  in  our  State  necessary  to  irrigation  of  lands  that  can  be  irrigated  from 
these  waters. 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  It  is  all  going  out  now. 

Senator  WALSH.  Yes ;  it  is  all  going  out  now. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  You  want  to  retain  enough  water  to  irrigate  the  irriglble 
lands  in  the  State  of  Montana  tributary  to  the  project? 

Senator  WALSH.  Exactly. 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  That  would  be  one  of  the  water  rights  to  be  considered. 

Senator  WALSH.  I  want  the  bill  framed  so  that  the  commission  or  the  Secre- 
tary will  not  confine  himself  to  these  lands  over  in  the  State  of  Washington, 
but  will  make  an  investigation  of  all  lands  capable  of  irrigation  from  the 
project. 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  You  might  say  instead  of  "  said  lands,"  the  "  lands  af- 
fected by  the  said  project." 

Senator  WALSH.  Anything  of  that  kind.  You  understand,  I  would  like  to 
have  the  investigation  go  on.  I  would  like  to  have  a  report  made  also  as  to 
what  other  lands  are  capable  of  irrigation  by  these  waters,  if  there  are 
any  such  lands.  The  fact  about  the  matter  is.  as  you  all  know,  generally  speak- 
ing, the  river  flows  down  through  a  comparatively  narrow7  canyon  all  through 
our  State,  or  at  least.  I  might  say.  a  narrow  valley.  But  there  is  no  incon- 
siderable area  of  excellent  lands  in  the  neighborhood  of  Plains  and  Thompson 
Fulls,  though  the  total  amount  may  not  be  great,  perhaps  not  more  than  10,000 
acres:  hut  if  there  be  such  land  and  this  water  is  available  for  the  reclama- 
tion of  it  some  appropriate  arrangement  must  be  made  to  take  care  of  it. 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  The  situation  looks  as  though  there  was  ample  water 
to  take  care  of  any  lands  that  might  be  available? 

Senator  WALSH.  I  think  so. 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  And  it  looks  as  though,  from  the  preliminary  examina- 
tion, that  the  works  of  this  project  would  at  least  not  make  more  difficult  the 
irrigation  of  lands  in  Montana,  but  probably  would  facilitate  it. 

Senator  WALSH.  I  would  not  imagine  that  it  would  seriously  affect  the  situa- 
tion ;  but,  then,  the  investigation  ought  to  be  made. 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  I  think  you  are  jierfectly  right  about  that,  and  I  would  be 
glad  to  have  it  provided  for. 

Senator  WALSH. _I  thought  of  suggesting  to  you,  Senator  Poindexter,  that 
feature,  so  that  it  would  be  within  this  project  as  reported  upon  by  this 
commission,  arid  then  such  additional  changes  might  be  made  as  will  cover  the 
other  point  I  referred  to. 

The  PHATKMAX.  Senator  Walsh,  I  think  the  project  should  be  extended  to 
include  all  the  elements  that  are  involved.  That  would  extend  the  work  con- 
siderably, both  in  the  time  necessary  and  the  ntoney,  I  would  imagine,  and  re- 
quire raising  this  figure.  It  would  require  a  survey  all  along  the  watershed  of 
this  r'ver  and  its  tributary  streams.  It  will  extend  the  work  unquestionably 
and  involve  a  larger  sum  of  money  and  the  extension  of  considerable  time. 

Senator  PHTPPS.  I  would  like  to  ask  Mr.  Blaine  one  question  in  regard  to 
that  territory  in  Panada  where  this  stream  comes  hack  in  for  a  short  distance: 
Do  you  know  what  area  there  might  he  there  that  would  be  subject  to  irriga- 
tion from  the  waters  of  this  stream? 

Mr.   BLAINE.  Very  little,  I  understand. 

Senator  PHIPPR.  But  the  amount  to  be  taken  o\it  of  the  river  is  a  little  less 
than  one-third,  in  any  event.  Would  you  anticipate  any  contention  on  the  part 
of  the  Canadians  there  that  the  water  could  riot  be  taken  out  in  the  I'nited 
States? 

Mr.  Ui. AI.NK.  My  point  is  this.  Senator:  I  believe  a  thorough  investigation  l>y 
a  commission  is  going  to  develop  the  fact  that  all  of  the  waters  of  the  Tend 
Orellle  ought  to  be  diverted  at  Albany  Falls  and  carried  to  the  Spokane  Uiver.  to 
he  reserved  for  power  purposes  for  this  12  0<M),()00  acres  and  the  towns  that  will 


18  COLUMBIA   BASIN   IRRIGATION. 

grow  up  within  it.  and  the  operation  of  our  railroads:  and  also  there  is  a  large 
amount  of  minerals  to  be  developed  in  that  northwestern  country.  It  is  a  hit; 
question  and  it  is  bigger  in  the  State  of  Washington  than  any  of  the  North- 
wastern  States;  but  it  l>ertains  to  our  whole  country,  and  I  want  it  to  he  most 
thoroughly  considered. 

Senator  WALSH.  What  was  the  arrangement  you  referred  to  as  existing  be- 
tween this  country  and  Canada? 

Mr.  BLAINE.  It  is  a  treaty:  we  may  take  the  waters  out  if  we  pay  the  damages. 

Senator  WAI.SH.  That  is  the  treaty  of  1!M)9? 

Mr.  BLAINE.  Yes. 

Senator  WALSH.  That  simply  provides  for  damages  that  may  accrue  to  owners 
of  lands  in  Canada  consequent  upon  the  construction  work.  But  the  more 
important  question  is  whether  the  Canadians  will  not  demand,  for  purposes  of 
irrigation,  a  portion  of  the  water  flowing  through  the  stream.  We  have  exactly 
the  same  proposition  up  in  connection  with  Milk  River.  Milk  Hiver  rises  in 
the  United  States  and  flows  through  Canada  150  miles,  and  then  comes  back  into 
Montana. 

We  started  to  appropriate  those  waters  and  the  Canadians  protested,  and 
then  we  made  the  treaty  of  1909  under  wh'.ch  we  effected  a  division  of  these 
waters. 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  This  Pend  Oreille  River  only  enters  Canada  for  a  very 
few  miles  before  its  mouth,  and  it  empties  into  the  Columbia  River  practically 
at  the  boundary  line.  It  goes  through  a  mountainous  country,  and  there  are 
practically  no  available  irrigable  lands  at  that  point. 

Senator  WALSH.  The  claim  on  the  part  of  Canada  would  not  be  serious? 

Senator  POINDEXTER.  No. 

Mr.  BLAINE.  If  we  could  handle  it  now,  no;  but  they  might  start  mining. 

Senator  WALSH.  A  hydroelectrical  development  would  not  make  any  differ- 
ence? 

Mr.  BLAINE.  If  we  divert  the  water  from  the  Pend  Oreille  at  Albany  Kails 
to  Spokane,  this  would  bring  the  .water  down  near  the  big  body  of  land  and 
where  the  activity  of  our  State  exists.  The  activity  of  our  State  is  to  the  south. 
But,  of  course,  there  will  be  some  mining  development  northeast  of  Spokane. 
So  it  is  an  important  question  that  ought  to  be  decided  as  soon  as  jMtssible. 

Senator  KENDRICK.  Do  we  divert  the  water  before  it  goes  into  Canada? 

Mr.  BLAINE.  Oh,  yes;  if  you  take  it  out  at  Albany  Falls. 

Senator  WALSH.  Does  not  this  necessitate  a  treaty  with  Canada? 

Mr.  BLAINE.  It  involves  an  understanding  with  Canada,  but  somebody  has  di- 
m-ted attention  to  the  fact  that  there  is  a  law  covering  the  subject  matter. 

Senator  SHORTRIDGE.  Assuming  that  the  water  is  diverted  at  the  point  you 
state,  to  what  appreciable  degree  would  it  reduce  the  flow  of  the  river  below 
the  point  of  diversion? 

Mr.  BLAINE.  If  you  divert  the  waters  necessary  for  the  irrigation  of  the  Big 
Bend  of  the  Columbia,  you  will  divert  between  5,000.000  and  0,000.000  acre-feet. 
But  there  is  an  average  flow  of  19,000,000  acre-feet.  That  would  leave  say 
13,000,000  or  14.000,000  acre-feet  in  the  river. 

But  my  idea  is  to  divert  all  the  water  of  the  r'.ver  at  the  falls  and  carry  it 
to  the  Spokane  River  and  bring  it  closer  to  the  point  of  power  consumption, 
and  hold  it  in  reserve  for  future  use  of  the  people  who  settle  upon  this  i2.ooo.OOO 
acres  of  land  and  the  cities  that  will  undoubtedly  grow  up  there. 

Senator  SHORTKIDGE.  Is  it  not  manifest  that  if  you  undertake  to  divert  all 
the  water  that  there  would  be  a  very  serious  protest  lodged  by  Canada? 

Mr.  BLAINE.  I  think  not. 

Senator  SHOUTHIUGE.  By  property  owners  or  citizens  below  the  point  of  di- 
version. Will  it  not  dry  up  a  flowing  river? 

Senator  POINUEXTER.  I  would  like  to  emphasize  the  point  that  this  is  not, 
necessarily  involved  in  this  project.  That  is  Mr.  Blaine's  personal  suggestion, 
and  it  has  many  attractive  features,  but  you  can  carry  out  this  project  entirely 
without  doing  that. 

Senator  SHOKTKIIM;K.  That  is  why  I  asked  what  proportion  of  the  flowing 
Avaters  of  the  river  are  to  be  diverted  in  order  to  carry  out  this  project. 

Mr.  BLAINE.  Five  million  acre-feet. 

Senator  POINDEXTKR.  Less  than  one-third. 

Mr.  F'.I.AINE.  Less  than  one-third. 

Senator  PHII-PS.  Can  you  tell  us  where  the  city  of  Spokane  secures  its 
electrical  power  to-day? 


COLUMBIA  BASIN   IRBIGATION.  19 

Mr.  BLAINE.  Along  the  Spokane  River,  largely,  from  the  waters  of  Coeur 
d'Alene. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  So  there  is  no  market  for  hydro-electric  power  at  the 
present  time? 

Mr.  BLAINE.  The  Spokane  Water  Power  Co.  is  about  to  the  end  of  its 
development,  and  if  they  are  going  to  keep  up  the  demands  of  that  section  they 
will  have  to  find  another  source  of  supply. 

Senator  PHIPPS.  But  your  principal  customers  will  no  doubt  be  the  railroads? 

Mr.  BLAINE.  Railroad  and  mining  requirements,  and  the  requirements  caused 
by  the  future  development  of  this  great  country. 

The  CHAIRMAN.  The  committee  will  now  go  into  executive  session. 

(Whereupon,  at  4.30  o'clock  p.  ni.,  the  committee  proceeded  to  executive 
session,  and  at  the  conclusion  thereof  adjourned  to  meet  at  the  call  of  the 
chairman.) 


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